Daily Driver

[124 sports coupe]

Just wondering , I am thinking about getting a Scorpion or X1/9, which would u recommend and can it be used as a daily transportation car? I also read that the brakes lock up on wet ground, are the brakes safe? Thanks for info in advance . I use to drive a 124sports coupe and also had a spider years ago, thinking about getting an italian car again!

[Paul C (Monte 3686)]

Although I have both Montecarlo and X1/9, I think this question should be answered by members in the USA as both animals are rather different over there than on this side of the pond.
Just in terms of numbers produced (around 5,000 vs 160,000) you can imagine that the avialability of spares and therefore parts prices are not the same, however niether is the driving experience nor the 'exclusivity!'.

Cheers
Paul

[Shant Fabricatorian]

Both can definitely be used as daily drivers, a friend of mine has an X1/9 he uses everyday. I use my Beta on a daily basis and the basic mechanicals (which are the same as in the Monte) are very strong. Just the electrics which cause misery, but then it ain't going to be any better in the Fiat...

Thing is, as my friend puts it, not only is the system bad in the first place, it's quite common for some idiot with no idea to have interfered with the system and made it even worse.

Really, which one you go for depends on what you want it for. Presumably practicality isn't especially high on your list, given that they're two mid-engined sportscars, but it's a nice thing to have in a daily driver, but you're considering the Fiat so I'd assume both are practical enough for your purposes. For styling, personal opinion is all-important of course, but I'd say the Monte does it for me, though I admire the Fiat's dart-like poise. Handling, the Fiat goes ahead (or so I'm reliably informed). Both use the Lampredi, but the Fiat's has a single-cam head and a very short stroke. This is another plus as far as I'm concerned - Fiat saved money by stroking the engine out to 2.0 litres instead of boring it, so that means that while the Beta will get to around 6500-7000 quite easily, the X1/9 will go to 8000 and beyond (which I find desirable...)

Quick word on X1/9 engines, by the way...if you can, go for the 1.3, the 1.5's extra power is marginal and it's been stroked instead of bored so doesn't rev as freely or as highly. This means a 4-speed gearbox but that's no great problem.

A story about the durability of the Lampredi. Said friend bought the car about three years ago now. The car looked decent mechanically, but was emitting some smoke under acceleration. Nothing more than a few worn valve stem seals, he thought.

After stripping the engine, he discovered what it actually had was five bent valves, bad scoring in three of the bores, and two of the pistons so loose you could move them around in the bores. As you might have guessed, this engine had no business still running, but running it was. Even more impressively, after rebuilding it, there wasn't a great deal more power available - a tough little motor that one. The car's been perfectly reliable since, normal maintenance aside.

It's true that early Montecarlos had front brake trouble, but it's quite easily rectified. The trouble is (I think) that the early cars had a servo on the front brakes, which helped to ensure that the front wheels had a tendency to lock thanks to the fact that there really isn't a great deal of weight over the front wheels. Once Lancia deleted the servo on the later cars it cured that particular problem, they might have changed the brake balance as well.

Which one would I go for? I prefer the Monte's looks, but at the end of the day I'd have to say the Fiat. As I say, my understanding is that it handles better, which is not to say the Monte is bad in this department, but that the Bertone is utterly superb. And at least in Australia, X1/9s are far cheaper than Montes. Good ones are worth about A$7-8000 these days, but I saw a Monte being flogged recently for A$30,000. Impressively, there's another Monte for sale now, which has been subject to a complete restoration and was once owned by Rupert Murdoch (how's that for provenance?), for A$42,000. In that context, the choice is easy for me.

Mind you, if someone offered me a Monte, I wouldn't turn it down...

[chrisc]

My cars are betas as well, but I find that they are perfectly happy with day to day use. Its not been an entirely trouble free ride but so far nothing I havent been able to fix with a little patience and a lot of advice.

[124 sports coupe]

Thanks for great info, were u saying that a scorpion is worth like $7 to $8 k , is that comparable to USA dollars. !!! Surprisingly I have not been able to locate an X ,I live in the midwest USA near Chicago. The other day I did spot an ad for a Scorpion, it is only 120 mile from me. The owner sent pictures. It has 43K original miles and he is the original owner. He says it is in excellent condition. It is silver with red interior. He is asking $5000. There is not much of a market here for them as they are not well known. Would parts etc still be avaliable? Anyone in USA that knows? Thanks again for info. PS what do u think about the price ?

[garrans]

Jump on to http://groups.yahoo.com/LanciaScorpion - There are a bunch of Scorp owners there with vast amounts of experience. DJ the owner of this site is also there. Many people subscribe to the list as they prefer the email interface.

Both DJ and I are in Colorado. There are always a few around, ones that pop up.... $5 G is higher end for a scorp in the US, however they have gone for more, and much less if you want to do a lot of work on them.

Anyway, definitely post on the yahoo list - you'll get lots of advice (sometimes conflicting, but all good ;-) )

[Paul C (Monte 3686)]

Hi Mr 124!
Why don't you do what many have done (including myself) - buy one of each! :D I love 'em to bits. Similar but quite different!
The wider track on the Monte makes a big difference in terms of handling; and it surpasses the X in terms of outright grip, but lacks what the Fiat has in 'nimbleness'. One is virtually hand-built - the other mass produced....

Spares are easy (in Europe) for the Fiat, while parts for the Monte are also available, there are fewer vendors. The most noteworthy being the Monte Hospital (www.montehospital.co.uk) in the UK, where Chad sources, makes, or has made, nearly every part of the car.

Pays your money and takes your choice. Or is that choices!

Paul

[Shant Fabricatorian]

Sorry for the delay in replying, I was just going through some of the back threads and saw that you'd asked a follow-up question which I'd skipped over...

No, the Monte/Scorps are worth ridiculous amounts of money over here, $A30-35,000 for the last two I've seen going, although admittedly these were in beautiful condition. That said, that equates to about $US18-20,000 at the current exchange rate, although ours is rising all the time.

On the other hand, X1/9s are ridiculously cheap, at least over here (if you can find one). I was originally going to opt for an X1/9 until I decided finding a good one was too hard and bought my HPE instead. (Don't take this as a slight on the Beta in any way, mind - the trouble was that every X1/9 I looked at was either a mongrel of different bits from different cars, or looked like it had been left at the bottom of the harbour for a couple of years...)

A few years ago, X1/9s down here were around 3-4k for a really nice one. They've shot up in the last couple of years though, to around $5-7k for equivalent condition models. That's from about $1500-2000, up to around $3500-4500 in your money. As I understand, part of the problem is that when they were at the cheaper price, even dads who should have known better were tempted into buying one for their teenage daughters, nice two-seater convertible sportscar for posing in around Bondi (what a waste). But now, the price has become an issue and you've only got those who really want an X1/9 for what it was designed for actively looking for them. So that could drive prices two ways - downwards, because demand is lessened, or upwards, because its status as a 'classic' has been rumbled. Still too early to call on that one.

But anyway, good luck with your choice, don't forget to report back on which one you end up buying!

[Warren Horby]

Having owned alot of X1/9's and now a Scorp, I would suggest buying a newer X1/9 ( circa 1982 and up ) for a daily driver and a Scorp to play and cruse with. The newer X1/9's in good shape are way more reliable that a Scorp is but I have never regreted going to a Scorp. The Scorp is a good car but the body and maintenance are paramount and you can't let your guard down. You can't beat on a Scorp the same way you can on an X1/9.
Just my 2cents.

Warren

[124 sports coupe]

Still looking for an X. I saw one in the paper for a $183 , no joke! It said it was very very rusty, was close to my home. I might have to look to the southern states and take a ride down that way, but still no luck locating !

[Warren Horby]

There is a guy in Toronto that sells X1/9's and there is always one for sale there as well. For some reason, the X1/9 sold well in Canada.
You won't have much trouble bringing it accross the boarder just let customs know what you are doing. If you like I can try to dig his E-Mail out for you.

Warren

[124 sports coupe]

Thanks , but canada is a little far from northern Illinois. I will try looking into some southern states within 400 miles or so, for now i will just keep looking at books and reading about. Some day I will be driving an italian car again, I should have hung on to my 124 sports coupe, from when i was 16 :?

[markalen]

If you want an X1/9, I know a friend who has an '87. It has had some really bad owners in the past, but it has been sorted out for the most part. It leaks around the windshield and needs to have a new clutch master cylinder installed. The brakes need a new master also. But it wouldn't cost you much for the car. I drive a 76 Scorpion, and it's really not that hard to maintain I think. Now if I could only get that damn heater to work.

firefoxweb@yahoo.com

i have a picture of it too
http://free.hostdepartment.com/f/firefox/change/auto/ownership.htm

wichita, kansas 67226 area