High Altatude Set ups

[Jay]

This may be a question for DJ.

Now that I have taken a look at my new toy, it's jerry rigged beyond belief. Wires are spliced from every which direction and will all need to be redone. Engine wise, the dizzy, spark wires, carbs, it’s all going to have to be new. I’ll want some performance but not a head ache to maintain. Is there an electronic implant to the dizzy to replace the points you can recommend? Second, what carb and manifold combination would you suggest to get me some performance?

Thanks,
Jay

[DJ]

Hi, Jay

I didn't realize there was a new Lancia nearby. Please tell us about it. Scorpion, Beta Coupe, Zagato???

As for ignition systems, I really like my Crane system. It replaces the points with an optical trigger that is really simple and easy to setup and maintain. You can get them from places like IAP but you can actually buy them cheaper directly from Crane at their online store.

http://cranecams.com/fireball.htm

Here at this altitude, my experience has been that new carbs, manifold, etc. doesn't really do much for you unless you first do something about raising your compression. There are two other Scorpions here in town that are bone stock and they really seem to run almost as well as mine did with dual DCNFs and Croft exhaust. That is, there really didn't seem to be that big a difference.

You can install a fuel injection system from a FIAT or a newer Beta for a lot less money than a dual carb setup would cost you and I believe you'd be happier with it in the long run. IMHO, performance cabrs are a PITA to setup right for this altitude. And then when you go to a higher or lower altitude, they aren't right.

IMHO, if you wanted to do one single thing to improve your performance it should be high compression pistons, first and foremost. Then, do other things like cams, exhaust, induction, etc. Unless, that is, you install a turbo or supercharger. :D

[Jay]

It's a scorpion. I've only had the opportunity to look it over at this point. It's in my father-in-law's back yard right now. It's been sitting for some time, so I'm not even going to try and turn it over. He is in Colorado Springs and I'm in Castle Rock. As soon as I figure out how to get it up to the house I'll start in on it. Like most of my projects I'll become obsessive about it. I'll start taking days off work to fiddle with it, forget I'm married, sleep in the garage, show up to work with grease on my face, you know - nothing too unhealthy.

You say that pistons are a higher priority with fuel injection next. I'm most familiar with Wiseco Pistons that I used for bikes and know they make some for VW/Audi/Honda/Toyota. Are these what you use? For fuel injection, do you run the Haltech or Bosch with the Crane optical ignition?

[DJ]

Please keep in mind that these are MY opinions and that you will likely receive other recommendations that will disagree with mine.

Pistons - I've never seen Wiseco pistons for these engines. But there are others available from several vendors.

Fuel injection is my personal choice because it is self adjusting for altitude, etc. Jetting on carbs, especially for dual carbs setups is very tricky at altitude and can only really be done correctly through the use of a dyno and a knowledgable individual. Then you still have to deal with the situation of driving somewhere that has a significantly different altitude.

As for what system to use, many folks (including me) use the setup from a newer FI Lancia Beta. It's a fairly simple and inexpensive conversion overall (with a few challenges). The Lancia setup allows upgrading the size of the TB for more performance. Some folks even use the FI setup from a FIAT which is even easier. However, the throttle body on the FIAT is a "permanent" type mount and doesn't allow for upgrading to a larger throat body to increase performance. Then there's also the issue of having that big "FIAT" logo on the intake plenum instead of "Lancia". :?

Normally, the aftermarket systems would ultimately make for better performance. There are definitely some fine examples of custom FI setups that some folks have done for these cars. However, the cost is a good bit more and it would generally require a lot more work. It depends on what you're really looking for in the end.

There is also at least one good DIY FI system available (MegaSquirt) that some others have done.

For my first FI phase I just wanted a 2 liter upgrade with HC pistons and FI. I'm using a Beta FI setup with a "large throat" Weber TB upgrade and this is, for the most part, a "Bolt-on" solution. (I also have the Guy Croft exhaust system.) This will provide such a significant upgrade for me that it should make me happy for some time. I expect that my next upgrade will involve a set of Jenvey or TWM throttle bodies that bolt to a Weber DCNF form manifold, a crank trigger ignition system, and aftermarket FI control system.

I recommend that you at least evaluate all options before deciding because your situation is undoubtedly different from every one else's.

If you want someone to help you look it over and determine a "path forward" let me know. I'd be happy to spend some time and share my experiences. I can also help with getting it transported to your house if you want.