FIAT X-1/9 AutoX Fire

[Will]

Ok, just a reminder to check your fuel lines- especially those that have the Weber carbs where the fuel line is just stuck in with friction. Like I know it is on the Scorpion. A lot of people say really stupid shit like "You need compression for the fuel to burn" or my favorite "The fuel doesn't burn, only the vapors burn and you can put out torch in a bucket of gas if you plunge it in fast enough!" , I'm tired of typing responses like " Are you competing for the Darwin award again this year?" or "Have you figured out how to get the caramel popcorn and peanut residue off that diploma of yours yet?" and so here goes a visual reminder....

Not a Lancia, but it IS an X-1/9. For those that think an X-1/9 is different from, say, a Lancia and thus a Lancia is inherently immune to this scenario, shoot me your address so I know where to send the cow lillies.

For the rest of you, enjoy- and remember DON'T use compression fittings on your fuel lines either, for as the hapless sap in the now infamous youtube banana-suit-fire video says at the end "FIRE IS BAAAAAAAAAD!!!"

The X-1/9 driver, Minem, was OK as I heard it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi7cEHbY-TI

[1,6 HF]

And check your safety equipment, including your extinguisher (all of you do carry an extinguisher, don't you?).

Another cautionary tale here: http://www.sportscarmarket.com/content/shelbyfire.html

[SubGothius]

I've been meaning to bring something up whenever anyone mentions the "friction fit" of the Weber fuel barbs. I am not sure whether Weber ever used any sort of adhesive to seal those barbs in place, but I can say that, when treated properly, they should never become loose. The problem is that "treating them properly" involves doing something counterintuitive to most DIY wrenchers; therefore many/most of our cars already may have developed loose barbs, ironically due to the best of intentions about preventing fuel seepage.

To wit: fuel hoses should never be fully-seated all the way down against the carb-housing end of the barb. Always leave at least 1/4" gap of barb brass showing between the end of the hose and the aluminum carb housing. This allows room for the hose to expand with heat!

Without this gap, a firmly-clamped and fully-seated hose as it expands can actually push the barb out of the carb housing, leading to a slightly leaky fit or, even worse, the barb falling out completely and hosing down the engine compartment with fuel! :o Good times! ::)

[Will]

Tye, with all due respect what you wrote is total bullshit. Other people might be too "polite" to correct it, I figure you know me well enough by now you won't be too offended if I call BS on that, and of course I'll explain why I'm saying that:

The rubber expands with heat a tiny amout, maybe it'll be a ten thousandths of an inch at a 40F temperature swing, it's also a compliant material, so the difference in pressure between it and the carb would be something on the order of a fraction of a gram.

There's a lot more likelihood of putting tension on the carb/barb joint by cramming the hose on and tightening the clamp because by doing so you have put the part of the hose betwenn the clamp and the carb in compression, and this is a good reason not to stuff it on too tight but has nothing to do with temperature. (but you are absolutely correct in sayting that you aren't helping the situation by installing the hose that way)


If your barb is going to fail in the above scenario, IT IS UNSAFE!!

EVERYONE should give a firm tug on the fuel line, and if it remains seated, at the very LEAST safety-wire it to the carb. This won't guarantee it'll never develop a leak, but it will help mitigate the chances of it coming loose and whipping away from the carb and hosing down the motor with fuel.

Better yet is to thread a barb in, and while you're at it check or replace the fuel lines since I've seen those cotton braided ones literally seep fuel on at least two occasions. I'll bet they make a nice wick going back to the carb when the fire starts :)

I don't know if Weber used anything in the "friction-fit" joint either, I didn't notice any epoxy or anything , but it seems bizarre that they didn't. I know there are some fuel-resistant varieties of loctite, etc.- but there is no way in hell I'm going to trust a non-mechanical fastener in that application. If I have to take some name-calling and people saying I'm paranoid in order to NOT have my car catch fire, I'm willing to accept that.

OH, BTW- loved the following quote from the Shelby guy...."Watching the fire-proof shift boot burn through like somebody was under the car with a plasma cutter was not reassuring."

Yeeeeah.

[1,6 HF]

You know, Will, last night I was getting ready to do the actual calcs on the thermal expansion to de-bunk Tye's assertion, but then I figured that I'd leave the BS call to you.

But in case anyone wants to do the exercise themselves, they can do the calc using the value for aluminum, which is about the same as brass and much higher than that for rubber (and simply because I know the value for Al and am too damn lazty to look it up for rubber). Aluminum expands at 22 x 10 to the-13th inches per inch of length per degree F. Assuming a 100 degree differential (and if you've got more than a 100 F differential under the hood, remove the duct tape you put onthe vents), you can simply use 22 x 10 to the -11 inches per inch of hose or barb. I think your estimate of a ten thousandth at a 40F differential is high.

If you aren't using aeroquip-type fittings, use fuel-rated rubber hose, leave enough slack for torque movements (the thermal expansion will take of itself...), use fittings made for hose clamps and install the clamps at not less than 1 clamp width from the end of the hose; don't cheat the clamp all the way to the end of the hose because you think it looks better (which it does). And check the fittings when you check your fluids; how much extra time does that take?

Finally, carry a working extinguisher, mounted solidly where you can get to it in a hurry.

[davidb]

To anyone contemplating pulling the rear crossmember to get @ the
fuel filter/pump get rid of as many of those fabric coated hoses as
possible including those for the evaporative emission control
system . Obviously replace clamps too . I left some in & one started
leaking: repeat procedure . Dropping that "X"-member ain't fun .
Will's correct . Plus clamping hoses @ the carb. Haven't had my Scorp.
a month but My Brothers I'm tellin' 'ya one of the 1ST things I did was
bolt a fire extinguisher between the seats . I don't care if people poke
fun @ me . I'm not risking two years of [anticipated] re-furb burn up in
minutes !

[davidb]

P.S.:
That "dropping the rear crossmember" business pertains to Betas
proper . Forgot . . .