Spring at clutch pedal - is it really necessary?

[Bali]

Hi,

I had to replace the clutch bowden recently, and there is a spring at the pedal that I could not put back to its place.
I stoped struggling with it and everything seems to work fine without it - like before.

What do you say - is it really necessary?


Thank you,
Balázs

[sprintcarfan]

On a Montecarlo the spring is there to reduce clutch pedal force in the lower half of the stroke. Some might argue it helps keep pressure off the clutch bearing while the clutch is engaged. I wouldn't worry about it.

[DJ]

I don't know exactly how the Beta pedals are setup but you might try reviewing the Scorpion/Monte Tech Note on the subject here:

http://www.lancisti.net/index.php?ind=downloads&op=entry_view&iden=64

[Will]

You guys are talking about two completely different systems (with all due respect to everybody).

On a fluid system like the Scorp, I think you need the spring to lift the pedal high enough to open the port to the reservoir, else the pedal (eventually, in theory anyway) end up at the floor? Plus, it makes it a lot easier to bleed the clutch than if you have to bungee the pedal to your foot! :)

On a cable system like the coupe/zagato, in most cases THE SPRING PROVIDES NECESSARY TENSION ON THE CABLE TO ENSURE THAT THE CABLE STAYS SECURELY IN PLACE (READ:ATTACHED)!!!!!

Did I write that big enough? Better make DARN sure your cable can't jump off now that there's no tension on it! Cables are not designed to work in the "push" direction, as a friend of mine says, "It's like pushing a rope"!

So personally, I'd reinstall the spring- if not, make sure the cable can't become disengaged.

My .02 worth of salient, potentially life-saving advice :)
-Will

[SubGothius]

Another, fairly weak spring hooked to the release arm itself maintains tension in the cable at rest to prevent cable detachment. I can confirm from recent firsthand experience that the FWD Betas' clutch pedal spring acts as a helper to ligten pedal effort. When my clutch cable snapped, that pedal also snapped hard to the floor, right out from under my foot! The pedal will stay put at the top of its travel without the cable attached, but pressing the pedal by an inch or two crosses a tipping point and whips it firmly to the floor.

If your left leg is strong enough that you don't notice any difference in effort with vs. without the pedal spring, then you might be okay without it, but then again I wonder if it might also be there to relieve some stress on the spring-fingers of the clutch pressure plate diaphragm while the clutch is disengaged... ???

You might find it easier to simply unbolt and remove the whole pedal box assembly for servicing on the bench, rather than trying to work on everything in situ cramped under the dashboard. ;)

[Jim Keller]

I have always used a long flat blade screw driver to re-install that spring, I tried a brake spring tool, but it was too fat for the spring and angle you have to go at it.
what I did, was stuck the screw driver end thru the spring end, layed the flat part of the blade on the spring post, then pryed off that point and tilted the screw driver until the spring slides off the driver and onto the post, works every time, you may have to try more than once till ya get the hang of holding the flat blade on the curved post while prying and trying to get the spring to slide off, but it works well, YOU JUST HAVE TO BE SURE YOU HAVE NO PERSONAL BODY PARTS IN THE DIRECTION THE SPRING WILL SNAP IF YOU SLIDE OFF THE POST ACCIDENTALLY AND MISS, BTDT, Ouch! It WILL draw blood! ha ha

[Bali]

Thanks for the responses.

Actually I still do not feel any difference, it really works just like before, with the spring. At first I found it strange, since I thought this spring will pull back the pedal.
When my cable tore, the pedal snapped to the floor as SubG mentioned.
BTW first I tried to remove the clutch pedal only, then I realized that I have to remove the whole pedal box - ahh, I did not like it. I could not understand why they made it so difficult ???

Anyway I am going to try putting the spring back - it is really not OK that I always have remaining parts after trying to repair something on the car ;)
(Jim, I tried it with a long screw driver, but I was not skilful enough - it always slipped off before it would have gone into its place. But I will keep trying)

Regards,
Balázs

[Jim Keller]

It is very tricky, the key is to get the flat blade centered on the round peg, then pry while "keeping" the flat blade centered to point where the spring finally stops sticking to the screw driver shaft and snaps onto the peg, "WATCH YOUR FINGERS!" , it took me a while on every one I did, but it was the only way I found I could do it in my garage with my basic back yard mechanic tool set! LOL, a brake tool may work well, most have a notch in he middle of the flat blade which helps keep it centered, but if I remember right, the brak tools blade was wider than the spring opening

You do not have to remove the pedal box to remove the clutch pedal, I have re-done the piviot bushings in a few of them, look closer, I can not for the life of me remember exactly how it is mounted, I think it is a C-clip and shaft, maybe a thru bolt, I forget, but I know I never had to remove the whole pedal box to get the clutch pedal out, just had too make a pretzel out of myself to work under the dash. I found over the years, it is well worth the time to remove the driver seat when you have to work under the dash and lay on the carpeted floor of the car instead across that dang door sill and squeezed in-between the seat and door frame, you will actually save a boat load of time removing the seat instead of trying to work around it, it is only held in by 4 bolts and a plug

[SubGothius]

...a brake tool may work well, most have a notch in he middle of the flat blade which helps keep it centered, but if I remember right, the brak tools blade was wider than the spring opening...

...or you could just grind/file a notch of sorts into the middle of a regular screwdriver, if you have a nasty ol' spare one lying around or can get one cheap.

I'm lucky enough to have a new'n'used "tool trader" nearby, so whenever I wanna "modify" a standard tool (or just need something weird that I don't want/need to buy a whole set for), I can go in there and usually find one that's cheap/abused enough to risk falling victim to experimentation... Seriously guys, if only you could see this shop -- an apparent (?) former service station turned into a labyrinthine and poorly-lit warren of tools and implements of every description, stacked floor-to-ceiling, loosely categorized into assorted bins, stacks, hangers and loose piles -- a veritable Guys' Haven! Suffice to say, estrogen is not a commodity frequently encountered there... :D ;D