Dead Beta :(

[scbeta]

Hey guys im pretty new, been looking round the forum for bout a month before I baught my Lancia Beta :D

Anyway, ive got a few problems with her.

Firstly, the cam bearing on the exhaust is pretty loud, but I hav another head with the cam piece that I could replace if necessary. How hard would it be? and if I keep it as it is, will the engine blow, or is the bearing jus gonna make noise?

Secondly, when i first start the car, i have to rev it above 3 grand or else she dies on me, and even with the choke out she still dies below 3 grand :( ive read that it could be fuel starvation due to a clogged fuel filter, so Im gonna check that, but does any one have any other ideas?

And thirdly, and pretty much the worst, is that I need to jump start my car all the time to get it to run! once jump started, the car runs fine, but as soon as i switch off the ignition and try to turn it on again, it has no power, not even to turn the motor. I know that the ditrobuter is leaking oil, could it have to do with that? its in a tricky position tho, so how hard is it to pull out? Oh yeah, and while I drive, the voltage sits right in the middle, and but if I turn it off and turn it back on, its in the red :( i suspect its the alternator, but maybe its sumfin else, dunno!

anyway, thanks for the help in advice, hopefully someone has an idea :D

Oh yeah and just to let you know, Ive baught two Beta coups, one a 76 and one a 79 (the suspect one is a 76), the complete one is the one im talking about here, but the stripped one is complete and is about to have a brand new respray. its got a custom interior, and sunroof and the filler cap in the top of the panel rather than the flap filler fingo. But yeh, top cars, hopefully I can get mine to run a bit better tho!

thank you again, cheers Raff

[Jim Fierst]

Welcome aboard .,.
You certainly have a set of problems.. Your no start problem is a very common one and if you search the archieves you can find details on how to wire a relay into the system. Basically the red wire going to the starter solenoid from the ignition switch is redirected to trigger a relay which allows enough current flow to engage the solenoid.The relay has a second power source ,usually direct from the battery. If you do not understand the workings of relays you really must learn how they operate as your Beta is full of them. Some of the fixes to other problems are best handled with relays. Relay knowledge is a must when owning Italian cars.
The engine does not have replaceable cam bearings so I do not know what that noise is. I have found a stethescope sold at auto parts stores to be very handy in isolating noises.
I think you would be wise to run a wet and dry compression check on the engine so you can get an idea of the condition of rings and valves. Fixing the need for high idle is a guessing game till you know the condition of the internals.
There are a lot of knowledgible folks on this Forum who are willing --to help you get your Beta sorted out.
By the way,where are you located?
Jim-



,

[Will]

A lot us us have been where you are, welcome to the club :)

Just some quick impressions from what you wrote:

a) Check the cam PULLEY to make sure it's tight. That is, if you are hearing a knocking sound. Also, if you have one of the plastic pulleys there, check to make sure the plastic part has not detached itself from the metal hub. If the sound you hear is a squealing of crunchy-bearing noise, then the culprit will be the tensioner bearing, which sits just below and between the cam wheels.

b) It's almost invariably a vacuum leak. I mean, like 90 percent of the time. Do a propane test.

c) Do you still have power, i.e. headlights? Do they dim when you try the starter? If the answer is that your headlights are bright and do not dim when you try the starter, then see Jim's fix above.

d) Leaking distributor is due to a bad bushing within- easily solved, but you may have to make up the part as they are hard to find. I think Jim Keller (on this list) had some made up at one point and may have a spare. Else seek a used dizzy with a good bushing.

e) TWO Betas, what were you thinking, man?? :)

Good luck, Raff.

[Charley]

What's with the picture of the Scorpion if you own Beta Coupes?

[SubGothius]

More to the point, what's with the picture of DJ's Scorpion? :o :D

Sorry, Raff -- don't sweat the token newbie hazing. ;) Welcome to the ranks of Lancisti! 8)

A bad cambelt tensioner bearing could mean your cam timing is sometimes a bit off due to a loose belt, or you already may have slipped a tooth (or more) off on one cam pulley or the other (BTDT (http://lancisti.net/forum/index.php?topic=1292.0)).

If you determine that tensioner bearing is indeed bad (the only bearings in the camboxes are the journaled type -- and non-shelled bare metal, at that!), and if you have trouble sourcing a replacement, I gather that a FIAT 124 Spider driveshaft-support bearing is the same, or similar enough to fit and do the job. You would need to remove the nut securing the bearing center and the stud running thru it; IMHO, you'd be best off just extracting the plate which carries that bearing in order to make replacement of the bearing easier -- unhook the tensioner spring and unscrew the bolt that anchors the other end of the spring, which is also the securing/pivoting point for the plate. ;)

[Will]

124 DRIVESHAFT bearing ?!? You mean the one that the driveshaft passes through? how's that replace a tensioner bearing?

This guy's car is old enough that if his tensioner bearing is original, it will be one of the non-sealed type, these are easily reconditioned (at least all the ones I've run across) by simply opening up the bearing and pushing out the two 14-ball races, scrubbing them down with a toothbrush and degreaser to remove the crusted schmutz, and lubing them up with fresh lithium grease or moly sulfide. The original lube was probably lard or something, it crusts up to a nice brown crud and then the bearings start squealing.

The bearing balls themselves are a wierd size, I don't know where to get replacements. At one time, I wanted to find ceramic replacement balls but the wacky size left me no-joy on that. Open to suggestions.

If relubricating fails, a new sealed bearing is about $15. The important thing is that you don't discard the outer ring that goes OVER the bearing if your car has one

[SubGothius]

124 DRIVESHAFT bearing ?!? You mean the one that the driveshaft passes through? how's that replace a tensioner bearing?
In the words of Malaclypse the Younger from Principia Discordia (http://principiadiscordia.com/), "I don't know man, I didn't do it." :D

I was just passing along what I'd read. Now that I think of it, I'm not completely certain it wasn't a Beta center-driveshaft support bearing... ??? IIRC, I think Trent was the original source of this tip... Trent, care to chip in and clarify this here?

[scbeta]

Hey guys Im back. Thanks for all the replies!

Well, ive read up about these relays you've all been talkin about and Im gonna go do it now, hopefully all goes well! About the vacum thingo, how do i propane test it? And as for the bearing noise, this is what I got told by the guy i baught it off of, but what i'll do is take a video of it all so you can hear it and stuff :)

As for the distrobuter, how hard is it to take off, cos its in between the engine and the firewall and it looks a bit tricky :(

And Jimmy, Im from down Oz, so Australia represent!

And to Will, must be love ey :D

Cheers lads, i'll be back soon to report cheers, Raff

[PAV]

Hey just a thought.

You should consider examining the condition of the engine through a compression check or better yet a leak down test.
If you have issues, you can spend money patching things over only to have to rip things back off since the problem may go all the ways down to the block.

Now if your cam belt is problematic, valve timing is off compression will not be reliable.

Quite frankly, if you don't know the age of your engine, the last time the cam belt was changed, and how many miles that belt has on it, starting a 1.8 L engine may cause the pistons and valves to briefly have a smooch before the car no start again. $$$$$oucher

So bearing and belt are a good start and necessary - VIC auto etc if you are in USA.

If you are saying Cheers Lads you may be a Brit ;-> and may try Monte Hospital, Omnicron, etc.

Oh, I defer to the other team members as the are certainly senior to me!

BR,

Paul v

[scbeta]

Lol nah im from Australia mate :D Im not sure the age of the current engine, I know its original, but the thing is this car I just want to get it running reliably so I can drive it and concentrate on putting together my other beta. Basically this one is the run about and the other one is the good one. The other one is ready to be painted, but in the mean time i need wheels so yeah. Im gonna do the relay thingo tomorrow and take some videos for you to see so you mite be able to get some ideas :)

thanks for all the help so far cheers lads! raff

[Wallace]

Seriously - change the belt !

If it lets go, it's an engine rebuild = lotsa time = lotsa dosh .

For 20 UK notes, it really isn't worth the risk. If you spin the tensioner by hand when the belt's off, you can get a good idea about the state of the bearing and see if it's worth replacing as well.

[Gregory Smith]

A few simple tests will lead you to your problem re: starting. Do you have a volt meter? Test the voltage at the battery terminals, running vs. not running. Running, you want to see around 13.8V, not running you want to see just over 12.5V.

If the running voltage is around 13.8V, the charging system is working, but perhaps the battery is bad. A non-running voltage less than 12.5 is discharged, which could mean not charging or not accepting the charge.

So, if the charging system seems to work but the battery doesn't take the charge, it's an easy fix; new battery. Best to take the battery out, charge it with a smart charger and have it load tested (many parts places will do this for free but it needs to be charged) before replacing.

If the charging system isn't working, you'll need to determine why. Start with clean, tight battery connections. Make sure the battery/alt. warning light comes on with the key but goes out after startup, without this bulb working the system may not function. If the light comes on but doesn't go out, or gets brighter with engine speed, then look too the brushes, they're a replaceable part of the alternator but wear out. Messing with this stuff is not too difficult but if you're in doubt take the alt. to a auto electric repair shop.

Given your description of being able to drive it except for starting, I'd guess your battery is bad. It would seem you need a jump (where you would normally be able to start it yourself with a good, charged battery) but once running the charging system is enough to run the car as long as it isn't shut off. That's pretty much how the charging system is designed, except it's also meant to re-charge the battery to start it next time.

[scbeta]

well great news everyone; i installed the relay and the car works great! :D

but theres only one slight problem, the headlights dont work :(

Im gonna check the globes, and check out the forum for info, but if anyone can give me a heads up then that would be great.

Cheers for all the help so far Raff :)

[hugh50935]

Don't forget to check the switch in the steering column RE the headlight drama. I wired relays into my headlights which significantly increased the brightness of the lights. Without the relays the switch can burn out (finding another one would be a pain).

Hugh

[chrisc]

Change that cambelt :)

you want reliability, well it sure as hell wont run reliably, or at all with bent valves

[scbeta]

Hey guys im back. Looks like i blew a radiator hose on the beta :( so what Im going to do is put that in the shed with the other one, strip it for its good parts n then get rid of it. Mite need to get my mazda running again tho :( Anyway good news, my project car is coming along well, its going to be painted soon so yeah :)