CAMSHAFTS

[Wallace]

Anyone considered dropping in a couple ofg NA Thema cams into an Integrale ??

They're longer duration to turbo ones : - so what would happen ?? :?:

[base5]

More power at higher revs and less torque at lower revs in general.

That's why an 8v responds so well to the Fiat Ritmo Abarth 130 TC cams, because it has loads of torque at lower revs and resonable power at higher revs. With these cams you lose a little torque (if no other mods are made), which is not a real problem because there's a lot of torque, but you'll gain a lot of power.

A 16v engine however, has not that much torque at lower revs. So you have to be carefull not to lose too much torque, else the engine won't have any drivability left. Make sure the in and the outlet timing don't overlap too much.

Base

PS. You're going to need a remap though.

[Wallace]

Thanks - it was only an idea as I've a pair of NA ones kicking around - I suppose you could just try doing the inlet or exhasut or both - but if the ECU needs a re-map it's not going to be a afternoon swap !

Out of mild curiosity - do you know the valve timing for a 16 valve engine ??

[base5]

I'd leave the exhaust cam standard and only use the inlet cam. It'll probably increase poweroutput with 20-30 bhp.

Timing of the 16v turbo is:
inlet: 8° - 35° (total: 223°)
exhaust: 30° - 0° (total: 210°)

I don't have this data from a normally aspirated 16v engine.

Base

[Bazza]

Anyone considered dropping in a couple ofg NA Thema cams into an Integrale ??

They're longer duration to turbo ones : - so what would happen ?? :?:

Wallace - I have used a Thema N/A cam on my Evo but I'm also running a c.r. of 8.5:1 and have gas flowed the head. Bottom end torque is very good with positive boost from 1500 RPM. Maximum power is 270 BHP using only 1 bar boost.

Surprisingly the inlet cam timing is 4 deg shorter than the Thema turbo (but longer than the Integrale! - at least according to the technical data)but has 0.5mm. more lift.

[Ciao]

Hi Barry,

What cams can you recomend for my car then.... Is it worth it... as an extra 20-30bhp sounds like fun.

I am beginning to get bored with the performance or rather lack of it...

Ciao..

Mike.

ps.. The cheque is in the post... he he.. and I won't come in your mouth...

[crono33]

hey mike, welcome back

did u get the second headlight

u are recycling that pic forever hehe

ciao

[Ciao]

Yes, and Ummm. Yes!

The headlight is at the postoffice, I haven't collected it yet... I'll do that on my way home this afternoon....

And yes.. why not keep recycling that picture... it was a great night..!

A definition of a good night... One you walk away from.

A definition of a great Night... One whre the following day you can still use the equipment....

Ciao..

Mike.

[HOLZEREVO]

Anyone considered dropping in a couple ofg NA Thema cams into an Integrale ??

They're longer duration to turbo ones : - so what would happen ?? :?:

I'm using a bespoke 11.5mm lift and longer duration cam (inlet only), with standard exhaust cam. There are two other 'Grale owners with identical cams and specs.

Improves the gas flow as well as power and torque BUT that is in conjunction with a whole host of other mods too.

Regards,

Neil

[HOLZEREVO]

Hello Mike...you have been EXTREMELY quiet...everything OK? Are you coming along to Holland next month?

Regards,

Neil

[Ciao]

Hi Neil,

I have been on holiday and away from a computer for a month, hence the quietness... I bet it was nice here wasn't it...

Anyway... RE: Holland.... I am not welcome there... since my shit stirring posting about the IDM cancellation being badly handled, I was threatened that if I turned up I would be removed "by force if necessary".

To be honest I never had the time to go anyway!!

Ciao..

[Bazza]

Hi Barry,

What cams can you recomend for my car then.... Is it worth it... as an extra 20-30bhp sounds like fun.

I am beginning to get bored with the performance or rather lack of it...



Mike - a Ritmo 130 TC inlet cam will give you a lot more revs.

[Rowan30]

Barry,

Is the Ritmo inlet cam change as simple as that, ie, are any further mods required?

Regards

Peter

[Bazza]

Barry,

Is the Ritmo inlet cam change as simple as that, ie, are any further mods required?

Regards

Peter

Well........ in an ideal world you should remap the chip to suit the different cam charachteristics but I have heard of a number of people fitting jussst the cam and not having problems.

[Ciao]

Barry,

Have you got any of those cams in stock.... and how much are they.. if you do?

Ciao..

Mike.

ps. Can it be changed in situ, or does the cam carrier have to come off... and what other anciliaries need to be pulled out of the way?

I am thinking that it might be enough to remove the cam carrier... and then change the cam, refit and then reshim the valve clearances.... Is it really as easy as that?? What about cam timing, is it just one keyway, or do I need a vernier pulley??

Ciao Ciao...

[Bazza]

Barry,

Have you got any of those cams in stock.... and how much are they.. if you do?

Ciao..

Mike.

ps. Can it be changed in situ, or does the cam carrier have to come off... and what other anciliaries need to be pulled out of the way?

I am thinking that it might be enough to remove the cam carrier... and then change the cam, refit and then reshim the valve clearances.... Is it really as easy as that?? What about cam timing, is it just one keyway, or do I need a vernier pulley??

Ciao Ciao...

You just have to remove the cam carrier to replace the cam and then re-shim. It would be best to have an adjustable cam wheel to get the timing spot on.

130 TC cams are quite rare in the UK but I think you should have no problem finding them in Sweden or Norway.

[HOLZEREVO]

Hi Neil,

Anyway... RE: Holland.... I am not welcome there...

Mike,

From what I remember of the various 'exchanges' it was agreed to live and let live and that apologies were offered...and you could come along withour 'fear' of being Public Enemy No 1 (I think).

Cheers,

Neil

[Ciao]

Thanks for the advice Barry... what cam timing would I be looking for then?

And I'll have a hunt around for a cam or two... if I find enough I send them over in a container..!!

Ciao..

Mike.

[Montrala]

So again :wink:

What will be best selection for 8V then? Bouth 130 TC cams or just inlet. Or those N/A Thema cams?

Please, don't kill me for asking stupid questions :roll:

[base5]

N/A thema cams also do the job, but the 130 TC cam is much better. Although timing and lift are almost the same, the lift integral is much bigger (top lift value is much earlier reached).

Base

[Bazza]

So again :wink:

What will be best selection for 8V then? Bouth 130 TC cams or just inlet. Or those N/A Thema cams?

Please, don't kill me for asking stupid questions :roll:

As Base says definitely the 130 TC profile is better that the Thema n/a. Maximum lift of the 130 TC is nearly 10mm. (Thema n/a - c. 9.3 mm.). Best to set up the timing with the inlet cam on max lift at 110 deg after TDC. Just fitting the inlet cam will give an increase of about 700 useful RPM at the top end, fitting the exhaust cam as well will only add about another 100 useful RPM.

[Bojke]

Hi I have Fiat Tipo with Coupe 16V turbo engine.Is it possible to fit this cam on my engine ?

[Bazza]

Hi I have Fiat Tipo with Coupe 16V turbo engine.Is it possible to fit this cam on my engine ?

The best inlet cam for your engine is Tipo 16v 2l (five door version).

[Ciao]

Thanks for the great response Barry.

You wrote

"fitting the exhaust cam as well will only add about another 100 useful RPM."

Are there no other benefits to be had from the exhaust cam then, such as a stronger pulse at the turbo to kick it into action sooner... on the Pikes Peak Saab we ran rather early exhaust cam timing so that the turbo got a real blast of gasses and this shortened spool up dramatically. Have you ever experimented with this?

Ciao..

Mike

[crono33]

hey mike, if u get an extra camshaft, lemme know

ill have a look in italy


ciao


Thanks for the advice Barry... what cam timing would I be looking for then?

And I'll have a hunt around for a cam or two... if I find enough I send them over in a container..!!

Ciao..

Mike.

[Bazza]

"fitting the exhaust cam as well will only add about another 100 useful RPM."

Are there no other benefits to be had from the exhaust cam then, such as a stronger pulse at the turbo to kick it into action sooner... on the Pikes Peak Saab we ran rather early exhaust cam timing so that the turbo got a real blast of gasses and this shortened spool up dramatically. Have you ever experimented with this?

I imagine that the exhaust cam used on the Pikes Peak car was nothing like standard. Group A exhaust cams close quite early - probably to give the effect that you describe.

I haven't experimented but will be soon when we build a trick engine for stealth.

[Bojke]

What will I get if I fit Tipo 16V inlet cam and do I have to go on the rolling road? :?:

[Bazza]

What will I get if I fit Tipo 16V inlet cam and do I have to go on the rolling road? :?:

Much better top end without much lost lower down.

Ideally you should remap the chip on a rolling road, but as with the 8v cam it should work well without a remap.

[Bojke]

So I can simply put new cam in and drive without even remaping?

[Ciao]

[quote="crono33"]hey mike, if u get an extra camshaft, lemme know

ill have a look in italy


Hi GM,

Ummm.. one problem... my cams will only have 4 bumps on them.. you'll be needing 8 bumps!!

But keep looking... so far nothing has popped up.. and I have only ever seen one 130 TC in Scandinavia, and that was in Norway!

Keeping my fingers crossed though...... I wonder if any Alfa CAms would fit?

Barry???? Alfa cams, are they the same............?

Otherwise we'll get some ground I guess!

Ciao..

Mike.

[Montrala]

Maybe somebody can give part numbers for this 130 TC cams. You can find strange things in Poland, if you look well :D

[Bazza]

Mike - no Alfa cams are different.

[Montrala]

I just talked to some guys from one Technical University here in Poland. If I can get hold of 130 TC cams for a week, then I can make good quality cams for all in need. Unless it's copyright violation :wink:

It's just an idea. Don't flame me :roll:

[Bazza]

I just talked to some guys from one Technical University here in Poland. If I can get hold of 130 TC cams for a week, then I can make good quality cams for all in need. Unless it's copyright violation :wink:

It's just an idea. Don't flame me :roll:

I'm sure no-one on here will flame you for such an enterprising project 8)

[Montrala]

I'm sure no-one on here will flame you for such an enterprising project 8)

So getting hold of one set of original 130 TC cams is only obstacle. If anyone is interested of course :wink:

I'll try to calculate costs.

[Ciao]

Excellent..... I am interested for ther right price... I'll keep hunting for cams here though.. and send them over if I find any!

Ciao..

[Ziggin]

Try looking here guys: 8)
http://www.lancisti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60

Regards
Zig

[base5]

Best to set up the timing with the inlet cam on max lift at 110 deg after TDC.
Standard timing of an 8v grale:
IN: 8°/42°

Total duration:
8° + 180° + 42° = 230°

Which means that the maximum lift of 9.1 mm occurs at 115°, which is 115° - 8° = 107° after TDC.

Standard Ritmo 130TC
IN: 7°/52°

Total duration:
7° + 180° + 52° = 239°

Which means that the maximum lift of 10.033 mm occurs at 119.5°, which is 119.5° - 7° = 112.5° after TDC.

With maximum lift at 110° after TDC timing becomes:
IN: 9.5°/49.5°

Is that correct..??

Base

[Bazza]

Which means that the maximum lift of 10.033 mm occurs at 119.5°, which is 119.5° - 7° = 112.5° after TDC.

With maximum lift at 110° after TDC timing becomes:
IN: 9.5°/49.5°

Is that correct..??

Base

Yup that's it Base.

I did reply to this before but my message seems to have disappeared.

[SteveNZ]

I have Fiat Tipo with a 2L 8V turbo conversion. It has 130TC cams. The top end power increase is quite noticable. The engine now revs and drives like a 130TC does, but with a turbo :D. I never had it on the dyno before but it has made 182HP at the wheels with only 10psi boost.

I have used standard camwheels and just fitted the cams as they would fit in a 130TC. i.e. 130TC inlet cam is now operating the exhaust valves as the head is reverse port. Is there a better method?

[johnmor]

Hi
I have been reading this thread on Cams and I was wondering if anyone has actually fitted the 130tc inlet cam to an 8V integrale, if so what other mods did they do, did it need re mapping and what was the result.

I have a flowed and ported head from a 1.6 Hf turbo with 130tc cams and I was thinking of putting the head on my 8v integrale. I'm not sure if the valves are bigger or if I should just swap the cam.


It has the standard ecu so I didnt really want to go down the remapping route as I dont have the equipment and the nearest rolling road is around 50 miles away.

Thoughts please

John