Zagato Softtop Bad Fit Help

[Betazag]

The vinyl softtop on my Zagato has the infamous bad fit at the front hinge area on both sides. I have noticed several UK Spiders with a clean fit in this area(see pics); appears that they have used an external fastner to hold that part of the top down. Any advice on this would be helpful as I am concerned about my top tearing if I put a screw through it...material has a lot of tension in this area with top closed! Does the cloth top have a better fit in this area?

[Gregory Smith]

The fastener you referred to is actually a snap. The female part is fitted through the top corner, the male part is screwed through the gasket into the body. It helps hold the corners is, and usually un-snaps automatically when you put the window down.

My cheap replacement top didn't come with this, so I added them with a kit from a fabric store. The kit has the pieces and a die that you use a hammer with to press-fit the female part to the top (off the car).

I recommend it!

[Jim Keller]

That snap through the top corner is a great idea, I never thought of it, however, I will point out, the Lancias Zagato/Spider did not come with a snap through the top, that snap fitting in the gasket is for the top boot cover, that is why your replacement tops, the cheap ones or the expensive correct replacement Robbins brand top, do not come with one.

[Gregory Smith]

Jim's correct, you may want to obtain a rear top cover and fit that to locate the corner snap. Then use it's snap location to locate the snaps on the top corners. The snaps are helpful to hold the corners in.

[Betazag]

Thanks for the suggestions. I knew that I should have held on to that top cover even though I never used it! ::) I was also toying around with an idea to modify this top. I have seen some images of a Zagato that did not use one of the braces on the frame that supports the soft-top (it is the one that extends the top straight back to supply more headroom for back seat passengers). Without this support, the soft-top has a sharper look. The soft-top would have to be modified to make it tightly fit the car properly. With this modification, the back window looks low and would look better if it was raised higher; now we are talking about major modifications or a custom made top! :o I am also dreaming up a removable rear hardtop like the one they used to offer for the Zagato, but also modified with the sharp angle. Hey, how many times do you have rear passengers with the top up anyway? MR

[SubGothius]

Personally, I think removing that "tent" in the top spoils something about the car's lines, some kind of proportional or geometric alignment thing, perhaps... All I know is, I got a new top partially installed, haven't had a chance to glue the leading edge to the upper bow yet, so I've left the top clamped up with the straps untensioned, which leaves the top untented, and I think the roofline looks awful that way, even when I can't see the sag in the middle and the too-low window. It's always bugged me when I've seen photos of other Zags in like condition as well.

BTW, I got the cheap $160 top from A.A. Best Co. (http://aabestco.com/merchant.ihtml?id=494&step=2) (you could get a tinted rear window for only $10 more!), which seems well-made enough for a basic top, even if not as heavy and nicely-detailed as the canonical Robbins top (which I think I saw somewhere for $260, but I couldn't spare the difference at the time). I can't help but wonder why the straps are usually sewn into the top edges, when it appears they should be permanently attached (riveted or screwed) to the top bows and body? Also, what solvent/method has anyone used to remove the old contact cement from the top bow easily? Or did you just leave it on and brush new cement over the old?

[Gregory Smith]

I too got the A.A. Best top, and regret it now.

I put a lot of effort into refurbishing the frame and the $160 top, while nice at first, doesn't hold up. The tensioning straps (which are much flimsier than the originals), because they're sewn in, aren't up to the job. I had one pull out of the seam immediately, so I had to hand-stitch it back in, and the other side has now pulled loose. The first side held, but only to cause the actual top vinyl to tear, so after 2 years I need a new top. Again. :'(

[SubGothius]

I only got the A.A. Best top myself 'cuz the window on my old top (which came from Caribou but looked identical to the Best top) came unstitched and finally blew out entirely on the highway, and I wasn't about to risk our extended drought this winter continuing long enough for me to afford a Robbins top. Anyway, intense-sun exposure here will quickly degrade any top material, and we don't get much rain here, so a cheap "dispose-a-top" seemed acceptable for my situation (or so I rationalized to myself ;) ). If anyone needs a top immediately and can't afford $276 (by now) for a Robbins top (http://www.atrim.com/Pager18.html), the Best top is at least adequate, with caveats about those straps:

I think the straps should be attached to the top frame, not attached to the top material at all; I can't even imagine why they'd be sewn in like that. Well actually, I can imagine it's provided to make a "complete" top replacement, in case the old top was already cut off in pieces and/or discarded, straps and all. The first thing anyone should do is cut the straps off the new top, heat-fuse the cut strap ends, and attach them properly to the top frame and body before installing the top.

As apparently original on my car, the end of each strap is pop-riveted first to the top bow, then riveted a few inches along the strap onto the secondary bow (so that when this section of strap is pulled taut, it holds the secondary bow in exactly the right place to keep the top material stretched and tented properly). The end of another piece of strap is attached to the body near the bottom bow, and the two strap pieces are joined up with a buckle that will pierce the strap to keep consistent tension. BTW, that lower attachment point should be off to the side a bit, so the tensioned strap exerts shear force (rather than thrust force) on the rivet/screw holding it to the body.

[Jim Keller]

That is correct, the strap should be pop rivited at the bow, then again in the cross bar, otherwise, your front lip of the top will pull back and look like crap from the stress of the straps pulling on the edge of it. The cross bar should be right at 7 inches +/- to center of bar from back lip of top bow for correct positioning of the center bar and roof line. At least thats were I always put them based on my first Zags original top measeurements. I have done 2 Robbins tops and 4 aftermarket tops. When it comes to keeping rain out, they all work about the same, when it comes to ease of installation, years of use, appearence and or the car show, only a Robbins is sufficiant in my opinion, I will no longer use anything else, just like I won't own a Beta anymore without Koni struts.
Most of the aftermarket cheap tops are fine, they just don't have the extra things like hand rolled edges, welded instead of stitched rear window and lack the leather grain look for a nice finished look, they will have a stitched rear window and seams which will leak even if you seal them regularly and will tear at the stitching sooner than a Robbins top.
One other thing I noticed with the different "cheaper" tops, you do not really want to go for the "heavier" material tops offered by at least one of our vendors, it is NOT a good thing even though it is marketed as so, that top is a "B" to install, it is way too stiff due to the thickness and doesn't fold down, close or conform to the bows well during and after installation, nor last as long because the thicker material doesn't like to fold easy like the thinner material so it tends to crack and split much sooner. Plus, it was the only top I ever bought for a Zag I actually had to trim a bunch off to make it fit.