Headlight swapping

[markalen]

I recently acquired a 1984 Beta grille for my 1976 Scorpion and I to complete its transformation I wish to change the headlights to a fixed setup. I want to do the quad headlight setup and I was wondering if anyone knows a more common car to source the headlight assemblies from? Preferably something that was imported to America or inexpensive as I cannot see putting 1200+ US dollars on the front of my car.

Thanks in advance
:idea:

[SubGothius]

Purists would suggest using the Beta coupe/Zagato quads, which occasionally do come up on eBay as whole assemblies, along with suitable bezels to fit alongside your grille. You might also consider BMW "E30" 3-series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E30) units, especially the later ones with ellipsoid projector lenses (which I've considered to upgrade my own Zagato), or you could always just visit a DIY U-pull-it junkyard and find anything with intact quad-round assemblies to pull and adapt -- the '82 Beta coupe/Zag bezels might not fit around these (e.g. if the spacing between each lamp isn't the same), so you'd have to cut your own bezels from sheet plastic and figure out how to attach them attractively. I've also wondered about cobbling something up from individual lamp modules (http://www.rallylights.com/hella/headlamps.asp) for more of a rally-car look, which could turn out looking either quite sharp or merely atrocious, depending on arrangement of lenses and quality of execution.

[markalen]

http://www.lanciamontecarlo.net/Montecarlo/photos/DCP_05811.jpg
Hmmm, what all is involved in this operation?

[Will]

Those are the Beta coupe/Zagato lights, the thing that troubles me is they don't really fit the shape of the Monte noseband. (hard to tell in that picture, but painfully evident when the light is from the front)

I have Monte lights, but before that I considered some of the rectangular combined high/low lights from an early 80's Dodge Ram pickup- they are rectangular lights but have a soft radiused corner, very nice IMO.

If I used the Beta/Zagato assemblies, I would have built out the inside of the Monte noseband to a semicircle with polyester filler so the part looked a bit more "fitted".

BTW that picture should remind you to straighten your grill and make sure all your lenses, etc. are intact before photographing your car- it made me instinctively mentally reach for that cockeyed grill to straighten it! :)

[markalen]

If I used the Beta/Zagato assemblies, I would have built out the inside of the Monte noseband to a semicircle with polyester filler so the part looked a bit more "fitted".



Please explain, that confuses me.

Also I'm plainnning to not use the 82 headlight trim (as I don't have any) I'm sourcing this from an 81. Anyone with photos of a car with the beta light treatment please post or email (firefoxweb@yahoo.com)

[Will]

The inside of a Coupe/Zagato noseband is more or less semicircular on the ends. But a Monte noseband is kind of trapezoidal. This makes for some odd litttle voids. If you look closely at the photo you can see them. They are a lot more pronounced with different lighting. I guess this does not bother some people. You'll also need a 1-pc noseband to cover where you took off the light buckets, you can get this from Rodger G. Or Chad, and you'll probably want to fill or remove the bumper trim strip that has the divots cut in it for the single lights.

I'm very pleased with the Monte lights, although they are not doubles, nor inexpensive. I suppose it is a matter of taste, I'm not terribly keen on the round Ferrari-look tail lamps either, since the car has such attractive units that were custom designed to fit it. I personally feel the trapezoidal lights go a long way towards conveying that the Scorpion is a unique production automobile rather than, say, a fiberglass Fiero rebody that is "supposed to look like a Ferrari or something." Thre's not much that displeases me more than having to explain to a ricer that the reason my Lancia "doesn't look like real Ferrari" is that it's NOT a Ferrari, it's another car that just happens to be made by the same company. I don't mention that company is FIAT, it's too much information for them at once.

[markalen]

I couldn't agree more with you about the tail lights. Thank you for the information/perspective. I actually already have a used montecarlo noseband from england. I think I might make something to fill in the gap between the grille and lights.
:)

[montecarlo]

hi there
if you do change your front end on the scorpion would you be willing to sell me the parts from the front i live in england and have a scorpion with the buckets nose band and grill missing i am having probs finding the parts in the uk
thanks steve

[markalen]

Oh, yes I think I could part with them. If you're still looking, firefoxweb@yahoo.com

[hermanzini]

I think that BMW E30 units is the best looking.
It was some work to modify the bracket to fit the Montecarlo
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w317/hermanzini/Roar482.jpg
E30 BMW units over the modded
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w317/hermanzini/Roar481.jpg
I think it looks great!
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w317/hermanzini/Roar508.jpg
Gives much better light!
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w317/hermanzini/Roar507.jpg
037 style tail lights.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w317/hermanzini/Roar484.jpg

[Andrew S]

VERY nice! Time well spent with the lights- neat. The way you have placed them at the extreme left and right is cool.

Andrew.

[Will]

I'm generally not a fan of quads as noted above, but I have to admit that may well be the nicest quad conversion I've seen. The part I like about it is that the lights are not in the same plane, I think the stepped bracket does a lot cosmetically in this case to make the installation look more attractive. The parabolic lamps are cool too- I had them on my Zagato so I know that properly wired you can vaporize small animals out to about 500 yards with them :)

[Andrew S]

Hey Hermanzini, What are those rear lights off, exactly? I like 'em. I like 'em a lot! I'm guessing Fiat or Opel...

Andrew.

[1,6 HF]

the rear lights look like Fiat 850 (which were also borrowed from the Fiat parts bin for the Stratos).

[Will]

Yep, now for the extra credit question, Andrew, Ed..... What other production car uses the exact same assemblies as the stock Scorpion/Montecarlo?

I'll give you three hints:

a) It's not an Italian car
b) The model is SC.
c) They are rarer than Scorpions (I think about 400 made)

What's the Marque?

An interesting fact is that the company's founder had ties to both Opel and Intermeccanica. which is how the Italian FIAT parts-bin parts ended up on the Opels.(Just an interesting FYI). The car the Scorpion/Montecarlo tail lamp assemblies are usedn is mostly comprised of Opel parts under the bodywork. There's nothing like combining the shortcomings of both FIAT and GM in one chassis!
(And they wonder why the Opel brand died in Japan!)

Why this is an extra credit question: When you sell your old taillights on ebay, list them as these! :)

[1,6 HF]

oh, I actually know this one: the Bitter SC.

[Andrew S]

Aah ya beat me to it... Actually that's a lie- I had no idea they were the same. One of my favourite cars too, the Bitter SC. Can't believe I never noticed that Will. Actually prefer the Bitter CD though. Now THAT'S beautiful.

Andrew.

[Will]

Points for you guys!

About five years ago (maybe longer now) Shaun Folkerts and I were walking around the Carlisle automobile show and came upon a green Bitter SC (his favorite, or one of 'em). FYI Shaun also has a Scorpion.
Shaun commented that they looked like X taillights and we both took a closer look and then looked at each other in disbelief!!!

I think we've spread it around the various forums enough that it's getting to be known among Scorpion owners, but I wonder howe many Bitter owners know?

[1,6 HF]

but I wonder how many Bitter owners know?

or will admit that they know...

[hermanzini]

Thanks for the kind words, I am pleased with the result :)
I did not know the Bitter had the same tail lights as the MC.

The 037 also has fiat 850 tail lights!
http://www.page.sannet.ne.jp/my-oda/tour/031026CiaoItalia/037Rear2U.jpg

[Will]

Only the works cars, Hermanizini- the Stradales have Monte tail lamp assemblies in a wider vesion of the slatted rear grill.

My favorite 037 Stradale story is why they are all red, apparently they could not make other colors of paint stay on the car with any longevity. Today, think of the fun a marketing group would have with that disaster. "So fast it peels the paint off" :) but the works cars are white, which makes me wonder if they were originally painted white or white gelcoat? Heck, for all I know they coulda been Awlgripped, I'd love to check one out in person!

[hermanzini]

Only the works cars, Hermanizini- the Stradales have Monte tail lamp assemblies in a wider vesion of the slatted rear grill.

My favorite 037 Stradale story is why they are all red, apparently they could not make other colors of paint stay on the car with any longevity. Today, think of the fun a marketing group would have with that disaster. "So fast it peels the paint off" :) but the works cars are white, which makes me wonder if they were originally painted white or white gelcoat? Heck, for all I know they coulda been Awlgripped, I'd love to check one out in person!

He he! Nice story ;D

I am going to Padova in October, and I hope to see both Stradale and corsa versions. :)

Auto moto d´epoca - Fiera di Padova 26-28 october
http://www.autoemotodepoca.com/

[JGreenslade]

How about fitting Integrale 16v (pre-Evo model) front headlights? I'm not so sure about the post-Evo lights in terms of proportion - a tad too small IMO.

Herman - do we get to see some pictures of the rear of your car after the grille has been fitted?


Justin

[hermanzini]

How about fitting Integrale 16v (pre-Evo model) front headlights? I'm not so sure about the post-Evo lights in terms of proportion - a tad too small IMO.

Herman - do we get to see some pictures of the rear of your car after the grille has been fitted?


Justin

You can see updates on the project on my project thread:
http://lancisti.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1821