low oil pressure (indication?)

[capnjoe]

My scorpion never indicated a lot of oil pressure. When revving high it used to touch the midpoint of the gauge (55) but at idle it would be close to the low peg. Lately I've noticed that it indicates lower than ever, and at idle is below the low peg; cruising when up to temp it is not much above the peg. The light never comes on when running, and no untoward sounds coming from the engine. Level is fine.

What do you cars indicate?

Might this be a problem with the sending unit? How to troubleshoot?

Thanks, Joe

[Wallace]

Try http://lancisti.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2032&highlight=oil+pressure

Scorp, Montecarlo, Beta, all the same . . .

[capnjoe]

OK, that was good but I found even more information. Here from the "tech tips web site"

"Oil pressure low and dropping too much when warm? the diaphram on the sending unit cracks and allows oil to get behind it. Get several from a junk yard as all FIATs except 850's use the same sender. Some do not have a wire pig tail."

OK, this is consistent but adds that all FIAT units will work. Price I found is $119 for a Lancia unit. Holding off on that. Then there is this...

"To recalibrate the oil and fuel sending units, use a radio shack 10k potentiometer from the sending unit wire to ground. Adjust for zero psi oil pressure with the ignition on and the engine not running. Remove and measure the pot and install a 1 watt fixed resistor of the measured value-approx 2k ohm-in the same position. Fuel units require that you know the tank level and full seems to be the best place to start. If both gages read low check the ground connection; it's double nuted at the rear right AC. assy. mount."

Since my sending unit does read- just low, should I try this first? Exactly where is the wire discussed here? In fact, where is the sending unit- besides behind the alternator somewhere? I am guessing I can probably find it from that but not sure I'll recognize the wiring functions on sight- is there only one wire so no confusion?

thanks, Joe

[DJ]

Just buy a new one. If you haven't replaced it yet, you will probably have to soon, anyway. In fact, I'm about to do just that for my Zagato. Same symptoms. Had the same on my Scorp. See links below for the part you need.

http://www.international-auto.com/index.cfm?fa=p&pid=2544&posid=868060

http://www.vickauto.com/cgi-bin/store/54-9663.html

[Will]

I'm sorry to say I didn't follow the "tech tips web site" explanation at all.

Here's something you can try (we are presuming your sender is bad anyway and you can't damage it any further)

Uncrimp the top of the sender and pull it off- you'll be able to see if the diaphragm is rotted through. If not (i.e. no oil in upper part of unit) then bend down the flap on the inside of the top that attaches to the terminal, and find the contact it is supposed to mate with on the wire coil. Clean both with 400 grit sandpaper and follow with a dab of acetone on the blunt end of a cut in half round toothpick (or equivalent) to remove any schmutz- don't get acetone on the coil!

Then recrimp the base with vise grips and see if it now works!

(this is the "other" common failure mode, besides the top filling with oil)

$120 is a rip-off. Anything over $40 or so is IMO too much. If you need to borrow a tester, post a request. I've got at least one, others probably do too.

DJ: Just an FYI- I noticed you and others have posted links to IAP's online catalog before- it doesn't necessarily work, I think because of the way IAP's site stores cookies on your computer. Or, maybe I should say, it doesn't work for me and I don't think it's browser related. Referencing your link, I get nothing but a descriotion and no price. Vick's link works fine.

[John O]

Or, maybe I should say, it doesn't work for me and I don't think it's browser related. Or maybe it's your choice of browser. It also didn't work for me using Firefox but openned just fine with Exploder - showing picture, price, and desricption. I find that I can't rely on just one browser anymore and, though I like it, Firefox has a lot of limitations and quirks.

John O.

[Will]

I'm using Explo(d)er, bear in mind that each browser stores cookies in its's own directory. For example, you might have been on IAP's site looking for an x-1/9 part, and later gone on looking for a Scorpion part with a different browser. The whole "pick a vehicle and stick with it" aspect is total crap IMO, so many of the parts cross reference (between FIATS and Betas at least) that this is really not convenient for me.
This is IMO a bad customer experience created by a web guy getting too sexy with his bad self- maybe it's helpful for FIAT noobs, I dunno. Guys like you and me that may be looking for X, Scorprion, beta, 124, or 131 parts at any given time are gonna get aggravated.

Or, maybe it's just me.....:)

[John O]

This is IMO a bad customer experience created by a web guy getting too sexy with his bad self

Concur. But there's also no accounting for the client's dumb ...I mean, BRILLIANT ideas!


maybe it's helpful for FIAT noobs

Might be, though their paper catalog lists plenty of stuff together - a de facto cross-reference.


Guys like you and me that may be looking for X, Scorprion, beta, 124, or 131 parts at any given time are gonna get aggravated.

And I do. Remember back when I was bitching about me having to be "the expert" when dealing with vendors and the more obsucre Fiats and parts? This is a good example. As long as I know the cross-reference source vehicle for parts I need for the Scorp (or even the X) I can get what I need. But were I a complete newbie, I might leave IAP's site without placing an order. The additional irritation is that they have a frikin' computer on their end and computers are far better at sorting than I am. If they'd simply bother to enter all the vehicles a certain part worked for, they'd sell more of that part/get more of my money. Secure from rant.

John O.

[capnjoe]

Here is the tech tips website- I thought this would probably be known to this group but in case not:

http://www.lanciamontecarlo.net/Scorpion/TechTricks.html

For Will, maybe it will make more sense in context, but I copied the words that I found relevant. You have to scroll down to find the relevant notes.

For DJ, now that I've seen a picture of the $40 part I will look in the car and see if I can see it. It does sound like that is what I need to do.

Thanks to all! Joe

[Will]

The part I didn't get. Joe, was the part about recalibrating the sender- but only because the senders work on a 300-0 scale. (one of two common sender scales for automotive OP, I don't remember the other one but it's much higher.)

Adding a resistor will make the whole scale read lower. You can't use that to "recalibrate" the gauge, you can only use it to artificially zero the gauge IF and ONLY IF your gauge happens to sit ABOVE zero with no O.P.

(And..if it does, chances are it's full of oil!)

If your gauge sits a little below zero (due to old dirty components i.e. increased resistance) you can add resistors all day long and not be helping yourself one bit.

I would personally not do this, if your sender is faulty, IMO clean it or replace it. Adding resistors to it seems pretty kludgy.

Anyway- I digress... Joe, you need to stand on your head (inspection mirror helps) and look under the inlet manifold, you'll see the OP sender and the smaller OP switch hidden under there. I'm trying to remember if it seals on the threads or a crush washer- if it's a crush washer, make sure it doesn't get left in place if it's not captive on the sender. There's something that really boned me that way once, I think it was the OP switch.

[John O]

... Joe, you need to stand on your head...Will, is this equivalent to the instructions in the shop manual at the beginning of every operation, "stand the vehicle over the pit"? That always slays me, "stand the vehicle over the pit" :lol: Now where'd I put that pit?

John O.

[Will]

Not that this is on topic, but I've found a pair of ramps to be very helpful. The trick is to put them behind the car and back onto them. Then, if you put a few milk crates and some scrap plywood behind the car, you have a nice step to make it easy to get to the engine compartment from the top.

Is this the same way to work on an X-1/9?

Also, the first steps for EVERYTTHING in the engine compartment should be DISCONNECT BATTERY and REMOVE ENGINE LID! It's one nut and one plug, for cryin' out loud. After nearly decapitating myself a bunch of times, then building a gas lift system so the lid didn't come crashing down on the back of my neck, I STILL remove the lid if I have any serious work to do.

PS> The pit comes standard from the dealer with every Lancia. If you have lost yours, open your wallet and watch where your money goes to...:)

[DJ]

The pit comes standard from the dealer with every Lancia. If you have lost yours, open your wallet and watch where your money goes to...:)

VERY good, Will! LOL :lol:

[Will]

You, know, on that other thread where the guy said the steering on his zagato was screwed up, and what he should replace first, I had to struggle to keep from quipping "start with the part between the license plates!" I dunno why I'm anti-Beta today, maybe because mine is not running and yet nearly burned the house down this morning??
THAT'd elicit some choice words from my S.O.!

[DJ]

Joe,

FWIW, I just replaced the pressure sender on my Zagato a few minutes ago. It had the same symptoms as your Scorp (which I also saw on my Scorp when I first got it.

The new sender immediately made the indication return to normal.

Taking my time, it took less than ten minutes to complete the job. But that's on the '79 carbie Zagato. It'll take a bit longer on the Scorp.